All right, I'm through waiting...

[Jub Jub]

All right, we've waited much too long so I'm going to say it outright: We all need to get working on a mod. We've procrastinated too long, and now look. We are a thinning community with only a few people who even bother to check back here anymore. We've got to get people intrested in this place, the possibility of Outcast II and any chance of an Outcast mod. I know many people have many different opinions on what sort of game engine to use, but the more time we spend arguing, the less people will even check back here. I know Unreal 2003 is a FPS but it's very easy to Modify, even for beginners like me. Tons of people make mods with the Unreal engine that we could put into our Outcast mod. (With permission) Just yesterday I was thinking we could place some of the coding of "Deadly Arts", a fighting game\UT2003 mod, into an OC mod so Cutter could perform Karate moves on opponents when unarmed. I'm not saying we should stick with Unreal, but it just seems like the best, if not smartest choice. Besides, UT2004 is coming out soon with the addition of vehicles, better graphics and, bigger maps. The way I see it, is that we have 3 main choices and I'll point out there strengths and weaknesses.

Half-Life II
Pros-Almost certain release date of December.
Supposedly very easy to modify.
Nice looking graphics.
Already has a mod community.

Cons-High system requirements.
FPS (Maybe limited map sizes)
Might be released later.

Unreal 2003/2004
Pros-Very easy to mod.
Huge mod community.
Accepts models created in Maya.
Relatively low system requirements.
Coming out soon.

Cons-Small maps(Hopefully not with 2004)
UnrealED is a pain in the ass to use.


Far-Cry
Pros-Absolutely huge enviroments.
Beautiful jungle graphics.
Might not come out in a long time.

Cons-Might only have Jungle graphics in the editor.
I haven't found a mod community yet.
Although it has a December release date, I don't believe it.
High system requirements (I'm guessing, though)

If I sound like I'm favoring Unreal 2003/2004, your right, I do love it's simplicity. If you guys have different opinions, please feel free to post them. The engine we use isn't our primary concern right now. Our primary concern is to band together to create this mod. This is the only way that Outcast will have a future. Anyone intrested just post here and we'll organize it further.

[Yod Xerxes]

I'm in, but I should warn you that I hardley have any experience with Mods. I geuss I'm not the only one so I think Jub Jub is right about the easy to use engine thing. I also think we should'not start to big or whe might get overwhelmed by it, I think it's better to start on smaller thinks and slowely work up to something bigger.

[toshiro]

count me in!
i think i can handle some of the graphics/animations....
BUT...there is something I wanted to mention earlier. what we really need and what is even more important then engine,graphics, maps and say...Cutter karate-fighting the enemies (though its a cool idea) is a story. an idea. i mean we need Cutter back on Adelpha(otherwise it wouldn't be an OC-game), but why is he there? what is going on?
I am just not good at this stuff [snif] . but i'd bet there are OC-fans, who can come up with an interesting idea. characters, events.....quests will then come out of the story(can i say that? ).
--------
about the engine : ut2003 is multiplayer-orintated. can we easily make an OC-mod with it?.......of course features can be added by an experienced programmer, we just dont have one at the present time :)
i think we have to look for a game that is similar to OC in the main aspects - big worlds, intelligent friendly NPCs...one that will allow us to easily tell a story........

my two cents :) [:P2]

[Jub Jub]

@Yod Xerxes-It doesn't matter how much experience anybody has. I'm just barely learning mods too. We just need to learn and get this thing organized. [8D]

@Toshiro-Even though UT2003/4 is multiplayer oriented the enigne is nice to work with on Single Player Mods. There are already a few total conversions, plus since most of us will be new at this, I think it's a good engine to start with. Once we get real good at this, we could switch to something like the Far-Cry engine.The only problem I see with it, is that the editor might first only come with textures and models for jungles. If that were so, then we'd have to wait for the developer to release different textures/models for snow, desert and, marsh. UT2003 already comes with those which makes us more independent and frees up construction/searching time. It doesn't have to be UT2003, though. Do you know of any other engines we could use?

Let's try to get this mod off the ground! Let's go around the place getting more OC fans. We've got to get some popularity. [rollin]

[Yod Xerxes]

I think we should first get a team, so everyone who want to join should say so here, if whe have a team whe should think about what we want with this mod and afterthat we should give everyone something to do so the work can start

edit - I will ask on other forums if anyone is interested helping us.

[gravitone]

Unreal tournament 2003 mod sound great, you can count me in, im good with unrealed, so maps will be a piece of cake for me. We need to structure this thing very carefully though, anyone can PM me on msn. richie_visser@hotmail.com or send me a mail. Im also available most of the time on efnet just /msg gravitone.
We should create a webpage and outline what we need, figure out whats most important and start working. A coherent system is very important if we want to accomplish anything. I was working on a map for a while based on some of the oucast2 artwork, I'll show some progress in a short while if anyone is interested. In the meantime, we have to get the following scripting done, just have a look around and see if you can find anything that serves our needs or can be adapted easily: weapons (obviously), characters (adelphans of course) nothing fancy, just walking allong their paths, should be able to conversate though. Some monsters, remember those pesky spiders? and the twonha and stuff. Enenmy's, etc.

We also need textures and models, now this is very important, I've been trying to contact OCripper about his tools, I want to export the original models to 3dsmax/maya and work from there, but so far no luck, if anyone still has the files and tools that he posted, please contact me.

[toshiro]

we now have a mapper too. great!

nothing against ut2003. it is the only engine i am familiar with actually.

however i did a little research on Unreal2-Mods. i read that ut2003 and U2 use the same tools for modding(i.e. UnrealEd. after all they are based on the same engine), only coding is supposed to be different. if so i think U2 is a better choice, because it features essential things like NPCs, talking to them etc.
i am just reasoning here...anyway, whichever platform we choose, i am in!

btw - for ppl, who are not familiar with UT2003-modding : www.masteringunreal.com . look for "Video Training". FREE video tutorials, that will get you started with UEd in no time (sounds like an advertisement, doesent it :) ). requires membership, not a big deal. great stuff, i just hope you have fast inet connection, because all together it is about 3 GB. but it's worth it.

also.... i think we dont need to rip OC and use its models. sure this would save time, but they(the models) are just too low-poly for todey's standards.
cheers
[:P2]

[Jub Jub]

[loll] All right, now we're getting somewhere. [moder] I'm begining work on the
HK-P12 model in Maya tonight. Gravitone, do you think you would be able to construct a map for Cutter's house in Montana? Maybe a small pond where he fishes? It talks about his house in the Kronos Project.

@Toshiro-I didn't even know Unreal II could be modded. [eek] Still, I think we should stay with UT:2003 because UT:2004 is coming out soon and it's almost exactly the same, except with better graphics. They should both be very compatible with eachother. [rollin]

[gravitone]

yeah great stuff, I'm not familiar with Montana, but I'll find some pics online, and get right to it. You want it to be actually playable, or just for a cinematic prologue?

[toshiro]

yes. U2 can be modifiyed. seems mach more complex then ut2003 though.

[gravitone]

ok I've spend about 4 hours working through tutorials today to get familiar with the new terrain editor and some other stuff in unrealed3. The assumption that maps cant be big enough is completely invalid, you can make them absolutely huge. Right now I'm trying to find a basic texture set that I can use in different environment that would suit well. Which brings me to the following point. Before we start actually investing insane amounts of time in things that we wont be using, or have to be redesigned later on, we have to plan this out. What do we want?? Just adelpha?, a in-game prologue on earth?, do we need the antarctic base with the transporter/portal?, do we want the old regions of adelpha? do we want to remake the old maps? create new ones? or do we want completely different regions?

[toshiro]

the maps should be well known places + the logical changes to them(lets take talanzaar for example - the Palace is gone, perhaps the wall has been destroyed as well... sands are moving away, because the Yods arent angry anymore [:p] .... ) + new destinations (perhaps showing more of ranzaar(the snow world)?................)
i tryed to stress that we need a story. things like the maps will come with it!

[Jub Jub]

That's true, Toshiro. If you've got a story, you start to think of maps.
I'll try working on a story. If we don't like it, we can always alter it.
@Gravitone-I think a playable map in Montana for a prolouge would be nice. It would be a little like Tomb Raider 3 because they let you go around Lara's house. Also a map in Antartica would be cool. Maybe Cutter would be called to it when a strange being (A Talan) comes through asking for Cutter Slade, The Ulukai. Then you could speak with him and the game would then go to Adelpha. We don't need it, but things like that really add to the atmosphere of a game.
Still, (as I always say [loll] ) start small. First a playable level of Cutter's cabin, then when we have that, we can get the game mechanics down, like hand to hand combat.
I was thinking, should we use the old weapons, or should we make up some new ones? A Taser? Maybe a Knife? Or with alternate fire, maybe Cutter could knock enemies unconscious using the butt of his guns? [moder]

[Yod Xerxes]

I want to start learning how to use the tools of Ureal tournement 2003 but where can I get these tool?? Or do I need to buy the game for that??? And about the regions I think it will be nice to make the regions that Appeal wanted to use for Outcast 2 (lGanzaar, Saar, Kizaar). I think we have enough artwork to give us an impresion what they had in mind for these regions. I also think it will be cool to use the regions of Outcast 1 but in a different time period like toshiro sad, atlast I think we should also put some of the talan characters from Outcast 1 in the game (but now there older or something like that), so that you''l slowely learn what happended with the great characters you met in Outcast 1

[toshiro]

ut2003 comes on 3cds. the third one contains all the tools if i am not mistaken. so, yes, you will need to buy the game.

where did you come by the info about Ganzaar, Saar and Kizaar? do you know more about them?